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The Deadly Spiral Of Live Services (The Jimquisition)

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http://www.patreon.com/jimquisition http://www.thejimquisition.com http://sharkrobot.com/collections/Jimquisition-merch Once again the "AAA" industry thinks it has a golden goose, and once again it's primed to bang that goose until the eggs come out filled with nothing but decaying spunk.
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Text Comments (3631)
スzyckon (3 days ago)
Live services essentially turn games into scams
Finnbarr O'Connor (4 days ago)
He is a hack when it comes to real journalism which is why he left his old job and thank god he got him here on this golden platform
Darth Maul (9 days ago)
L I V E S E R V I C E S
BrotherO4 (10 days ago)
To be fair..ubi offers thier shit for free,
MightyMadFish (11 days ago)
Perfect games..... Worms world party Hogs of War Warframe Did I miss any?
this juice (14 days ago)
"There is no perfect game" Uh Oh, did somebody say Knack?
MastaDJMax (14 days ago)
Triple-A gaming in it's current state is a bubble waiting to burst.
Rebecca Lovecraft (15 days ago)
"Capitalism creates innovation!" *shows literally anything*
GHB (17 days ago)
Please nintendo, don’t move to this business model.
Root Note-Evan (22 days ago)
11:20 Jim watches Black Mirror!....that explains a lot, actually....
Gameshark Gary (25 days ago)
Sick black mirror reference 👍👍👍
Azathorn Aza (25 days ago)
Even in the matter of Daily Reward, Digital Extremes do the right thing. In Warframe, you're not forced to log in your account every day like in the vast majority of other games with similar system because you don't lose your "progress" in the daily rewards ladder if you don't. They're simply just not shark.
Dan Hawkins (27 days ago)
I work in online gambling...pretty obvious where they are drawing inspiration from.
princesstamika (1 month ago)
the wrestling clip at the beginning had me thinking i'd accidentally clicked on a botchamania. keep living the dream, Jim!
Asbestos Fish (1 month ago)
_H C¹. Hahahahahahaha._
Urameshii (1 month ago)
What you said about Tony Hawk is a perfect example of why I am 100% against games as a service fuckery, I hate the thought of putting that time effort AND money into a game only for it to eventually have all the servers wiped and shut down once they've decided they made all the money they can off it, a big no fucking thank you to that! I think I'll stick with my DS
Kaiyznn (1 month ago)
Sentencing niche genres to death is such a thing of the past, AAA publishers are now just ruling out games in general to be done with it.
Steve of the Dead (1 month ago)
12:05 Call of Duty is the reason we don't have Timesplitters 4. Think about that...
Rhyas9 (1 month ago)
Live Services? Like Battlefront 2? Like Destiny 2? No thanks.
Aaron Hill (2 months ago)
What an informative and insightful video!
Zarr the destroyer (2 months ago)
luckily for me, I have a backlog of good games long enough to wait until "live services" blows over
Kyle Buehne (2 months ago)
I've been turning on my console, looking at my library, and sighing because I don't have the time or interest to get invested . Feeling quite the same as I do right before I put on my plastic smile and step out the door for work.
DevilGearHill (2 months ago)
That "Black Mirror" moment was nice.
Slunq (2 months ago)
Are we heading to a world where GAMERS are a distinct group of people and the rest of us are excluded unless we get freebie upgrades if we do well? I can really see that corner they are painting themselves into. Pricks. (I edited this just to add the word Pricks at the end).
Slunq (2 months ago)
Brilliant, mate.
Sparky Doodles (2 months ago)
Yearly WWE games I believe have this issue. Last year WWE 2K16 was a Games with Gold title, so I decided to try it out and the servers were already closed for it. So, not only do servers stay open for only a year, but now I have an unbeatable game forever taunting my completionist rating...
Jonas King (2 months ago)
I don't play online only games.
Modded ToHell (2 months ago)
fighting the good fight
Adam Chapman (2 months ago)
I've been banging on about this for a year now and the sad thing is if you aren't on our level, [REAL fans of the industry] you dont really care about companies doing this. NONE of my friends give a shit, they are happy to be able to download their games onto a HD and not be able to return the product or sell it/swap it with a friend. Casuals will kill us all.
The Renegadist (2 months ago)
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 5? I'm still playing and enjoying THPS on the 64.
Dakota Treager (3 months ago)
I just started playing fall out 4 again and ON THE COCKING STARTING SCREEN there is an advertisement for collars that change dogmeat's skins. Saying there's a bundle that can be purchased. In game? Not sure. Just seeing the fucking thing on the starting screen made me instantly irritated.
KaeYoss (3 months ago)
Dammit, Vivendi, hurry up and make with the hostile takeover! I don't even care if you'll make Ubi even worse than it is, as long as that pretentious arsehole Eve Gullymond lands on the street.
Steven Andrews (3 months ago)
jim said gains that many times in the first two minutes i had to got to the gym! Get some gainzzzzzz
Enosh Starcrod (3 months ago)
Hit The Lever 3 times? MAKE IT 6
Shade Blackwolf (3 months ago)
Can we enjoy the irony of modern AAA games pretending to be live services? I'll buy games that are live services. Let me quickly explain where i'm coming from. I'm a live service developer at a telecom company. Having said that, here is what a live service is, as industry standard throughout the IT industry, except games: 1. You buy a license, not a product. 2. With this license you have access to the product, forever. 3. After one to five years you have to renew the license to keep recieving updates. If you don't, you stop recieving updates, in most live services. This is the service' entire revenue. 4. With your license (usually tied to a username and password, token, or key) you can gain access to the live service, on any internet enabled device. 5. On each of these devices you can use every part of the service your local hardware is strong enough to run. 6. If you get it to run on a smart toaster, you can use the service and your data in it, including the data from other sessions. 7. If the service is shuttered you get a free update to a new version, or a full version of the service to run on your own servers. 8. A license severance (equivalent of a ban) is paired with at least a full refund. 9. Uptimes north of 95% and disconnects south of one call per million are common terms of the licence contract. 10. Bugfixes typically have a 2 week term to be performed from time of reporting. 11. All feature expansions that happen during the license term are free updates to the product. Right now the closest gaming has to this, is Minecraft java edition.
Kanner111 (3 months ago)
Missing in all of this analysis is any discussion of the idea that whales only spend money to impress other players, and that requires both 1) other players, and 2) a game that is sufficiently popular that it's worth impressing a lot of people. E.g having an all gold deck in Hearthstone only matters if Hearthstone is a game that a lot of people are actively passionate about. So when, as with Destiny 2 or World of Warcraft or whatever, you monetise the shit out of a game to the extent that there is nothing for non-paying, er, non-microtransacting people to do, thus losing your passionate audience, you've also lost the sad people who would spent real life money to impress others. In short, in order for microtransactions to remain viable, they have to remain absolutely optional, and in fact more or less a joke to 'real' players of the game. And since it seems pretty clear that the industry is desperate to make them non-optional, in some kind of delusional fugue that has desperately grateful customers lining up to purchase new things like american characters in a Pixar movie, it's gonna take another few games at least for this whole thing to cool down a bit.
Karnage Fails (3 months ago)
8:50 Ellen Degeneres
Karnage Fails (3 months ago)
OH MY GOD....BOGLINS!
oulabi (3 months ago)
hump the shit out of it until they fucking kill it.video game industry in a nutshell
Maximvs Dread (3 months ago)
OMG They're sooo FUCKING ALIEN!
Manored (3 months ago)
Its like the industry doesn't understand that people find being constantly poked for cash annoying and that it negatively affects their perception of the product and company over time. Many people nowadays stay the hell away from games that offer anything even approaching a "live service", without even giving the game a chance, because the're fed up with the system. This annoyance will reach critical mass sometime and this business model will be boned. Don't get me wrong, devs need to make their money, but there are ways to make money without being annoying. Make the game, sell it, and then sell expansions. Heck, even DLC is ok so long as the game doesn't keep rubbing it in your face, doesn't break the game, and doesn't feel like something that should already be in in the first place.
PlotlinePlus (3 months ago)
I can only go to theaters a few times a year, because I can't afford it and I don't have the time. So I choose carefully. Same goes for this. I only have so much time and money.
Imname62 (3 months ago)
Bethesda is the last hope
Ellen the Cat (3 months ago)
WISE!
Nicolas M (3 months ago)
I love how we Jim is trying to pass that 10buck save on MGS as scandalous while everyone is ignoring the fact that nintendo is forcing people to buy copies of the game for save slots on their flag ship pokemon games for years now:!
Axel's DDO Channel (3 months ago)
This is my issue with live service games as opposed to standard single player campagins. Who except for college kids really has time for live service games? As a working adult I have 1-2 hours at most per day to play games. I don't have the time for them. The only way I would ever be able to make significant progress in those games is if that's all I played and the only activity/hobby I had outside of work.
canadiananim8r (3 months ago)
5:14 umm jim, overwatch isnt free to play though? why would blizzard make it free to play when they can sell it for 50 bucks and ppl will pay for it o.O
Jaminator (3 months ago)
The Crew servers are also down, and I really loved that game but didn't spend any money. 😢 RIP- Discount GTA game
I am using Linux and i play a lot of indies. The good thing about Linux is that only good games are available, AAA bullshit don't approach the platform anyway...
maizimay (3 months ago)
just a glittery bitch slap
MrCorvusC (3 months ago)
It's funny how people keep picking on R6, and never mentioning the fact that it's a very very good game. Reason why Ubi keep supporting it is because once in a while they've created something that holds people's attention for more than 4 hours.
spearhead7777 (3 months ago)
Eventually the center will fail to hold.
TheMothman001 (3 months ago)
It's all well and good hissing and shouting 'Booooo' at the AAA studios churning out wave after wave of shit but we also have to address the fact there is a huge amount of gamers spending money hand over fist buying utter pointless shit week after week and making these companies vast amounts of money...... In a word; gamers are as much to blame for the poor state of the AAA industry as the greed driven corporations, because you can be sure that if no one was buying all this garbage week in and week out these studios wouldn't be pumping it out like shit from a cows ass. they make the monitorised content because there is a massive percentage of gamers buying it all.... Despite all the you tube vids, news articles, hate on forums, these gamers are lapping up chargeable content without batting an eyelid. So next time you get your pitchforks out for EA/Activision/Bungie/Ubisoft/Square Ennix/Bethesda and all the other AAA companies sucking money from wallets ask yourself how many millions of gamers are letting it happen regardless of knowing it's killing gaming...... Smokers buy packs of cigarettes with pictures of tar drenched lungs on the packets knowing that the cigarettes will kill them, so it's no surprise that there are gamers buying monitorised content despite all the bad press. People are stupid and don't think about tomorrow, the cigarette makers love those stupid addicted smokers and the AAA game studios love those dozy casuals slumped on the sofa, controller in one hand, credit card in the other.
Tyg Rahof (3 months ago)
What I see with "live" services is getting as much as money as possible and when it fizzles out, you won't be able to connect as they will abandon it. You will be subject to their allowing access, not your wanting to play.
David Dixon (3 months ago)
Man, that Earth & Beyond screenshot brought back some memories, haha.
Stafa Flocka (3 months ago)
I’m glad I play warframe, it’s definitely not free, because if you think about it, there’s so much plat to be spent if you really want to play the game, and I’m not talking about fashion. But the fact that you can make plat makes it way better than any game out there right now. I haven’t been able to even buy a game recently, the market is just awful.
Sveer Ler (3 months ago)
I still wait for the day when there's gonna be a enforcement on crimes against humanity.
Sveer Ler (3 months ago)
general games have become just another money makeing machine, they dont make the games because of fun and adventure anymore :(
SNTRL J (3 months ago)
Currently: 666k subscribers!
peregrine (4 months ago)
it's annoying when you say "triple A" literally every time with the high pitched voice to mock it for some reason
Nebelkorona (4 months ago)
Unpopular opinion: but how about we let AAA move on and become a separate category like mobile, that rakes all the dough they want, but regular gamers ignore it just like mobile games. Honestly i don't see it like a trend that can be won.
Chris The Rottweiler (4 months ago)
Also if Swatting don't stop then this model is going to collapse even faster.
Samuel Shock (4 months ago)
Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral Downward Spiral
NewFlamenco (4 months ago)
Wait...did Jim become a wrestling character on the side?
Brocknoth (4 months ago)
Jim I don't know how often you read the commentary on your videos but if you want some good talking points for a company going full tilt into "live services" you should do some reading on how Square-Enix has been handling FFXV and some of their other projects. They basically released a "early access" version of the game for FULL price and have been marketing patches/updates as "DLC". Plus they seem to have a fascination with shitty mobile ports of their older games. Worth looking into I'd say. I feel like that issue as a whole needs more exposure cause it goes along with a lot of what you're saying here.
Chibi Ninja Gaming (4 months ago)
I'm sorry but every time someone mentions how good DE is I have to say this #FreeRevxDev
Phoenics Hewson (4 months ago)
A great man once said: "It's funny how these days innovation just means catching up to Valve." 'platform' is starting to sound scarily like steam, an exoskeleton around games to take your money and (allegedly) offer rewards/games as benefits. Steam in games for microtransactions
Namoth (4 months ago)
yeeee......main industries can go fuck themselfs ,i rather stick to my OLD HARDWARE! copies of games or indies etc..then ever give into 'live services' the ONLY service a publishers have any bussnies provideing ..is mp server services..nothing more ,and hey.. they should be competing with comunity funded server services rather then like maffia trying to shut it down...... then agen , most knows big corps only talks free market but in reality they crave to carve out kingdoms makeing slaves out of people.
MajkaSrajka (4 months ago)
Can anyone explain to me why everyone calls Metal Gear Survives infamous microtransaction SAVE SLOT instead of CHARACTER SLOT? What is it? MGSurvives name? Or everyone either copy-pasting "save slots hurr durr" / "if we tell save slots it will look worse"? I dont get it.
KantarGrom (4 months ago)
And here I am missing Hellgate: London and Marvel Heroes... I get what you say, Jim...
Silvershadowfire (4 months ago)
I call it the 'high school homework' fallacy. Each high school teacher piles on homework in the blithe thought that this will only take 'one or two hours'. Not considering that every other teacher also piles on 'one or two hours' until the student is doing five or six hours of homework. Now game companies are thinking the same thing, that they will have everyone playing their forever-game. :/ It got bad enough in my school to actually pass a bylaw limiting homework assignments - likely in this case though, the free market will take care of that. I would hate to see that though, since there are a lot of indie games without the advertising budget that deserve to be played more than cookie-cutter big budget hamster wheels.
AlgaeNymph (4 months ago)
13:29 - You stay logged in when the servers shut down, then live the rest of your (un)life as your character. That probably only world for direct neural connections, though.
Nick Mahonski (4 months ago)
This is why I have been strictly avoiding certain companies for the past several years; UbiSoft, Activision, Konami, and EA (except Battlefield). They are crazy if they think they can implement a DRM system in their games and people will keep playing them. I truly think that these "AAA" gaming companies think that gamers are morons.
Graham Post (4 months ago)
HAHA when Stirdust hits the dude with the glitter you can hear a little kid shouting "Oh shit!"
Artur Fraga (4 months ago)
we're back to PS2 era, where it's alright to pay for save slots (I'm looking at you Memory Card)
rabiescow (4 months ago)
Not sure if you have said it anywhere before Jim, but what is your opinion on the subscription models MMO's use?
Aeternus Doleo (4 months ago)
It is ironic. The AAA industry wants to push lifetime value, but they are completely obliterating the established IPs that could offer these with shallow gameplay, overmonetization and/or unfinished/untested games. A new IP in the current industry is unlikely to succeed. Anthem? Will likely be dead on arrival, now that so many hypetrains have crashed and burned, and considering it has the EA label on it (which to me is a "Warning: Overmonetization included" label) no amount of advertizing will get that game in gear. Which means Bioware is going to go the way of Viceral. And then EA will only have their sports division left. No loss there though.
pigtailsboy (4 months ago)
Dreading the wrestling feature now. Been avoiding Jimquisition because I worry. I worry for Jim's health and reputation in a new space. I feel like sterdust isn't a worthy enough character for the ring or that this new audience won't understand where he comes from. I worry that he won't be able to grow fast enough or adapt. Oh, Jim, why do you have to make me worry so!
GHB (4 months ago)
Oh Ubisoft.
Logen Kain (4 months ago)
I think Paradox is the only one to do this type of thing right. Sure, one game that lasts for many years, but constant updates and DLC to support it. Also, no online requirements, or DRM either.
Rhaenyra Reigns (4 months ago)
People who own PCs and have no internet connection could be clients too... alas!
Joe Chip (4 months ago)
This perfectly lays out something I have felt for a while now. I know many gamers who are gravitating towards indies and retro because the tedious busy-work of the AAAs is just too time intensive and, frankly, boring as fuck. They are the Videogame equivalent of the airport novel: fat and bloated and utterly pointless. Give me a short game with artistic integrity any day over that shit.
GamerFromJump (4 months ago)
Meanwhile, I’ll be over here with my Switch and older consoles, playing my enormous backlog.
Enthused Norseman (4 months ago)
This is the MMO bubble all over again.
Enthused Norseman (4 months ago)
Ah, yeah, you got around to it. :P
Yuen (4 months ago)
MMOs are pretty much dead because of Live Service games. At least MMOs gave you the option to quit whenever you wanted to. They only had the rare event every seasonal or so.
Grandpa Soldier (4 months ago)
The backround music https://carlcatron.bandcamp.com/track/march-of-the-sterling-jester-eerie-remix
Skeptical Panda (4 months ago)
*T R I P L E A*
TheCherry1994 (4 months ago)
I despise the people who run this shitshow AAA industry. We could have so many great games with innovative ideas. Now it's up to small emerging indie studios and hope they won't walk the same path once success comes.
Bismuth Crystal (4 months ago)
Subset Games, the makers of FTL, just released their second game, Into the Breach, and it's amazing. Just wanted to say something nice about games. And there really are so many great indies. Just gotta write off the "AAA"s and things look so much brighter.
iiiears (4 months ago)
I think what Jim is missing is the ability for a single game to be many games in one and a social destination the essential network effect so popular with advertisement/tracking software like Facebook. Pay once for the product, pay again to enhance it and distinguish yourself from others, pay ad infinitum with your time as chattle to advertisers.
Yousir Cantknow (4 months ago)
There is no God so I can't thank it for you.
iiiears (4 months ago)
Seen as a progression of money grabs "Live services" on a graph leads to you being the product and the buyer being advertisers. Once again it is a race to the bottom, lowest cost entertainment for highest return in dollars. It is a fight we seemingly cannot win. A battle previously mirrored in radio, movies, theaters, cable, satellite radio, the Internet, we pay twice once with money and again when our time and eyeballs are rented to the highest bidder. We should continue to fight a stalling action because the alternative is just too wasteful...
adeternitamn (4 months ago)
No one dares say it openly but the problem does not with the gaming industry. the problem lies in the IDIOTS that are willing and eager to pay money for games they will never OWN. As long as IDIOTS will keep paying hundreds and thousands then the gaming "industry" will keep milking them. The games have died, long live live services ( MMO).
Rad Dudesman (4 months ago)
Either that or the government starts regulating the game industry. (which is going to happen if the ESBR doesn't do its job)
MyShreddedSanity (4 months ago)
Should America fall into civil war and chaos in my lifetime, my battle-cry as I charge into my brave but futile death will be, "FUCK KONAMI!"
KittenyKat (4 months ago)
10:54 - Motor City Online! God I miss that game. ;~; It was one of the few good ones of the age. ONLY car racing one I know of worth a toss. Fucking Activision....
Thomas Weatherell (4 months ago)
i just laughed so hard at that Sterdust intro i think i had a seizure
Suirano (4 months ago)
I wonder how long it will be before they start making achievements based on how much money you put into a game? I bet that has already been done.
WaterFlow (1 month ago)
Suirano Skylanders comes to mind, you had to own one of all elements to get the Platinum trophy among some other trophies.
OKi SAMMY (4 months ago)
that culture might just be called... capitalism
Derek Czerkaski (4 months ago)
People also seem to have forgotten about things like Unreal Tournament and Paragon; games who were service-based models that were cancelled abruptly because another game was making more money. That's the real dazzler about "Live Service" is that it's the ultimate "Fuck you" to consumers, backers, and supporters. It amazes me that people are still for this practice at all to be honest... if anything publishers and developers have all but told you that they don't give a singular fuck about you, a quality product, or anything other than pure $$$$
PeterCap (4 months ago)
I disagree about your prediction about the notion of live services ultimately collapsing in on it's self. I fear it's gonna be a lot worse than that. The examples you gave have one crucial difference than this current situation. The modern shooters were all competing to be like Call of Duty. The dancing games were all trying to be THE dancing game. The MMO's were all trying to be like World of Warcraft. The live services are all gonna try and make money. Which is much wider scope of a goal and easier to have multiple companies exist in that bubble. I predict an initial phase where similar games compete and the one that makes the most money wins. And in time as the victors emerge they all establish their own fiefdoms. So say you have Battlefield and Call of Duty. CoD live service is more successful and gaining more money than Battlefield. EA decides to really push Battlefront instead since it's a unique IP they have that they can make money off of instead. It's a different group of "payers" so it can insulate itself from it's loss against CoD. These AAA companies have multiple IPs after all and I'd say each one has it's own unique stuff(by that I mean it's not all the same genre/era/franchise) and as a result you have a much larger pool of people. The time concern is negated by the fact that when you have so many potential people odds are some will still be around. So instead of it collapsing I see it as a weird demented offspring of a platform and a video game. You have a bunch of puesdo-platforms, basically games that have become more "expanded" and eternal and have now transcended into something different all together. The end result is a bunch of major franchises in gaming being gutted and ultimately taken out the field. Being this fixed object of greed that is beyond the gaming scene. These are just my thoughts in there weird rambly glory. I don't know if I'm right or (hopefully) wrong.

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