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Did Deep Space Nine Plagiarize Babylon 5?

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Support my work on Patreon: http://ow.ly/3ymWFu Support my work on MakerSupport: http://ow.ly/pJjS100RXtS PayPal Donations Welcome. Click here: http://goo.gl/NSdOvK Sources: Straczynski’s email: http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-21322&query=ds9 Patricia Tallman On Star Trek DS9 Copying Babylon 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtaDXnB1YsA List of similarities: http://ow.ly/iumB1014o77 SUBSCRIBE TO THIS YOUTUBE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVb4m_5QHhZElT47E1oODg KEEP UP ON SOCIAL MEDIA: BitChute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/hybM74uIHJKf/ Gab: https://gab.ai/DaveCullen Minds.com: https://www.minds.com/davecullen
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Text Comments (1748)
WarlockCore (1 hour ago)
I knew about this interestingly enough Star Trek Discovery is being sued also for plagiarism, history repeats itself, just saying
G Richard Yamagata (7 hours ago)
I watch Deep Space 9 from beginning to end once or even twice a year. There is no other show that I do this with and I have an extensive DVD library. I love that show. Babylon 5, I also love the show, but I find that I just do not have the desire to watch the show and therefore find that I watch it from beginning to end once every three years. Part of this is because Babylon 5 is so disjointed. The B5 movies are hard to watch. Year 5 is just too different from the other 4 seasons and I find that I have to struggle to complete watching it. What might affect my ability to watch the series is that so many of the actors have died. That may be part of why I find it hard to watch the series, the deaths that really saddened me the most were the actor that played Garibaldi and the actor that played Vir. Then again, It was Richard Biggs' death that really affected me, because it meant that no more stories would be forth coming with Dr Stephen Franklin and JMS was still writing up to that point that there were plans to use that character in film projects. After writing this, I now have the desire to watch Deep Space Nine a second time this year 2018! Meow.
TheDeckinator (2 days ago)
Deep space franchise LMAO
Jack Black (3 days ago)
Watched DS9 more back in the 90's and never really got into B5 as much but I liked it. I've just finished re-watching B5 seen a lot more episodes that I missed back then, plus I could follow the story a lot better now with it all on tap...It was far better than DS9 in fact it's probably one of the most underrated Sifi shows there is. If you haven't watched it or it's just slipped from your memory, then get it and start your binge!
Cory Pedigo (3 days ago)
Well, now I have to download Babylon 5. Never seent it. Thanks!
DreadPyriteBob (4 days ago)
Babylon 5 is the best sci-fi series I have ever seen
Gerald Morgan (5 days ago)
I just couldn't get into B5, it always seemed so cheap and the cast just didn't have that certain chemistry(it always felt like actors playing roles) in my eyes. The similarities are undeniable but DS9 was easily the more polished and nuanced show in my opinion.
David Hill (7 days ago)
I could never get interested in Babylon 5. DS9 I was into from the start. DS9 was a much better show. Just because they were both based on a space station does not mean anybody plagiarized anybody else.
Hiraghm (7 days ago)
Btw, Patricia Tallman can be seen in the movie, "Atlas Shrugged, Part 2 The Strike" as Ken Dannager's secretary.
Jani Akujärvi (10 days ago)
Check out the work of Gareth Williams, A Dark, Distorted Mirror by Gareth Williams http://www.b5-dark-mirror.co.uk/
petulant (10 days ago)
No, Stracynski was full of shit. Every now and then in this life you will encounter someone who has many similarities to you. You can easily accuse them of ripping you off but that doesn't make it true.
Don Felipe (11 days ago)
Star Trek and Paramount were very concerned about Babylon 5 when it came out. TNG was nearing its end and there was no new Star Trek series planned. Babylon 5 also featured extensive state of the art (for the 90's) CGI while Star Trek still drew heavily on models and such. I agree based on the evidence you have presented in this video that DS9 was a knock off of Babylon 5 however Paramount's real answer to Babylon 5 was Star Trek Voyager which used the aforementioned CGI much more. It may also explain why in many opinions it took three whole series for DS9 to hit its stride and come into its own, the Dominion were not even heard of until the very end of the 2nd series but then came to define the show where Babylon 5 I believe had the Shadows as the main antagonists from the very start. I reckon DS9 was Paramount's somewhat cynical placeholder to keep Star Trek on the air until such a time as Voyager could be up and working, that said I love DS9, it's my favourite series in the franchise but the early series sucked badly.
Rob Allen (12 days ago)
I enjoyed Babylon 5 much more than ds 9
rick chase (14 days ago)
I thought it was the same show!!
Dana Ripley (14 days ago)
The answer would be yes. Paramount had to settle out of court for it.
Ted Phillips (14 days ago)
It always made me wonder why Shimmerman would play the part of a stereotypical Jew. As for the Cardassians - seems they were the stereotypical French. Who were the others?
Joel Weymouth (15 days ago)
There was section 13 in Babylon 5, and Section 31 in Star Trek - that was so obvious.
Ubermetalhed (16 days ago)
B5 is the best sci-fi show of all time.
DECEPTICON UK (16 days ago)
Ds9 tried to be as good as b5 but failed. B5 is possibly the best sci-fi show ever. Great vid bro, keep up the good work.
Paul skirton (16 days ago)
I loved B5 saw every episode, I could rant about the positives of that series for hours. I kind of gave DS9 a bit of a wide berth because I was seeing it through the same sugary lens of TNG and Voyager as such I didn't give it the time it deserved. I may well revisit the series and watch with unbiased eyes.
Dale Kinnear (18 days ago)
On Babylon 5 there was the grey council. On DS9 there was the obsidian order.
MasterFhyl (18 days ago)
"Federation on Deep Space Nine and The Earth Alliance on Babylon 5". Come on now, that doesn't count. The Federation has always been a part of Trek.
Shiboline M'Ress (19 days ago)
In that scene about the toys, Ivanova sounds just like S1 Kira! 🤣
mastermonarch (19 days ago)
Don't leave your script with a powerful studio for a year in any case DS9 had the strength of star trek to spring from with stunning visual effects B5 had 3D rinders made with software you can download for free from a Google search
Matt Mickus (19 days ago)
I love both shows. But Babylon 5 is without question the better show.
Frank Geisenburg (20 days ago)
Well written and delivered. I do a yearly watch through of B5 and have never been able to get through DS9. just my particular take on this. obviously a big B5 fan.
SSanatobaJR (21 days ago)
They probably did draw inspiration from B5, but it was different enough that, no, it doesn't technically qualify as plagierism. Yes there are a lot of similarities, but a lot of differences too. Writer and producers do this all the time and as long as it is different enough, they can't be convicted of plagierism in the court of law. I am a big fan of Star trek, have seen all of ds9 and have seen most of b5. Still, there is obvious influence there.
SSanatobaJR (21 days ago)
Now, if I could just learn to spell plagiarism....
Nathanielle Crawford (21 days ago)
No! The Queen of Star Trek herself did a guest spot on B5 as a clear gesture to the fans of both shows. And in other news Bruce Willis was dead the whole time.
Red Crusader (21 days ago)
DS9 had a more unified aesthetic and used great character acting to drive home philosophical themes. B5 was more pioneering, experimenting with visual styles and storytelling. B5 had amazing writing, but unfortunately was hamstrung with a low budget (poor VFX) and bad casting choices. B5's acting was at times brilliant, but the character dramas centered mostly around local politics rather than broader philosophical issues.
Toucan SonofSam (21 days ago)
Why yes, yes they did!!
Kris Barski (21 days ago)
In the Star Trek universe we have never seen religion before or since. Prior to Sisko all Space Stations I can remember were run by Admirals or Governors. Why a commander?
Caleb Imrie (21 days ago)
No. It didn't.
gianni bude (21 days ago)
Star trek was always each show separated episode. B5 was the first with a storry with in a storry
Alexander Morano (22 days ago)
No they did not rip it off. Please try to come up with better paranoid delusions. And if you knew anything about the production of these shows you would realize that Ron Thornton did the graphics for Paramount on subsequent Star Trek series.
Judd Vance (22 days ago)
When comparing similarities don't forget that the commander of each started the show with survivor's guilt from a hopeless battle that nearly destroyed the human race (Wolf 359 / Battle of the Line).
One Man Army (22 days ago)
If anything Babylon 5 is a rip off of DS9. DS9 was way better quality.
rgd963 (22 days ago)
I agree with Cullen statements. and yes both were great shows!
iceyarticuno (23 days ago)
It's literally "oh shit! Two cakes! 👌👌"
iceyarticuno (23 days ago)
But yes, I personally loved both, and while I've been disappointed about this for years, I've mostly settled on my above comment, ganked from someone talking about content and availability of it to an audience. (Though there it was more about quality when, to an audience that enjoyed that sort of thing, who cared if it wasn't as good as someone else's? They just got two cakes that were amazing! Of what they love!!)
glenisterm (23 days ago)
Other similarities: Founders acted behind the scenes and hid themselves (shapeshifting), while having their agents (Vorta and Jem'Hdar) do their bidding. Shadows acted behind the scenes and could make themselves invisible, while having their agents (Morden and Drakh) do their bidding. Founders used organic technology in genetically engineering the Vorta and Jem'Hdar. The Shadows used organic technology to make their ships and control units. The Prophets were non-linear and knew the past and future. Time travel allowed Valen and the Vorlons to know the past and future. Both series had episodes involving a secret intelligence agency, that acted outside the law. Section 31 in DS9, and the Psi Corps in B5. Both series had the powerful forces stalemated by their enemies, with the stalemate broken by the space station commander. Prophets and Pa-wraiths in DS9, and Vorlons and Shadows in B5.
Shiboline M'Ress (23 days ago)
I love both shows, and I'm glad the franchises settled the dispute. The most beautiful evidence of that was when Majel Barrett Roddenberry guest starred in a B5 episode. But my favourite Star Trek actor in B5 has to be Walter Koenig as Bester. He's the villain I love to hate, just like Dukat (no h! 😉) in DS9.
Bassquake (23 days ago)
B5 was ahead of its time! Season long (even entire show) story arcs, had cgi special effects and it was also shot in widscreen when not many shows were! Such a shame they lost the cgi files so remastering is going to be time consuming! At least it was shot on 35mm film! Wish theyd do bluray edition with new fx like they did with Generations.
kitkens2 (23 days ago)
if you watch Voyager species 8472 are the Shadows from B5
philmar44 (24 days ago)
Yes, DS9 did indeed rip off B5, ask Pat Tallman or JMS himself. However, it does not really matter because B5 is so superior to DS9 it all worked out in the end.
Tech Savvy (24 days ago)
DS9 was dying until the war with the Dominion breathed new life into it. Too much religious drivel was killing it. B5 was just uninteresting from start to finish. Tried to watch it several times but couldn't sit through it.
zen (24 days ago)
since when did the minbari *help* with the running of babylon 5? they were just helping in the war when babylon 5 was the hq
Angela Corcoran (24 days ago)
The war like Cardassians had ruled over the peaceful Bajorans like the Centauri had ruled the Narn The conquered worlds had rebelled and gained freedom.
Benjamin Allen (24 days ago)
Damn you for making a decent argument for this topic!!!.. But seriously I enjoyed this video and I want to say thank for bringing this up.
JXS nWp (24 days ago)
TL:DR yes they did
Jason Newell (24 days ago)
B5 is the benchmark by which I judge all sci fi.
Beyond Ken (24 days ago)
So who's Jake, and who's Nog, in Babylon 5?
Pogo (24 days ago)
Some details were different The difference being the Minbari were a major power that nearly wiped out the human race while the Bajorans were a backwater race that were defeated and occupied by a 2nd tier space power. The Minbari actually created the White Star class of pocket warships while the Defiant was an Earth ship.
Radial Blue (25 days ago)
Do "Space: Above and Beyond"
Mark 1024MAK (25 days ago)
The problem with this, is that EVERY THING is in some way a rip off of other preceding works. Because that is what humans do. Even if we don’t intend to. I watched both shows when they were first aired in the U.K. I loved both. Yes I noticed a number of similarities. But not enough to make me think that one was a copy of the other. Look closely at any story and you will find elements of other stories. It’s even worse when you have a series that runs for twenty episodes or more. To put this into context, have a look at two different soap operas. They are always using similar story elements to each other. Was DS9 inspired by B5? Probably. Did the production team behind DS9 take ideas from the B5 outline? Maybe. Did the production team behind DS9 blatantly copy B5? No. But all space based Sci-fi that has humans or creatures similar to humans will have similar elements. Because a lot of the story is about the humans. Maybe you should compare two city ports, and then complain that one copied the other. Both are likely to have bridges, shops, roads, offices, hotels, houses, government officials...
mr benchpress (25 days ago)
Babylon 5 plagiarized Deep Space Nine
Kevin Thomas (25 days ago)
I have a very controversial answer. Yes DS( did take ideas from B5 but I'm cool with it! Everything is influenced by something else, everything takes from what came before. Star Wars took from Flash Gordon, which was inspired by Buck Rogers, which was strongly inspired by John Carter of Mars!
Valandar2 (26 days ago)
Short answer: "Yes." Long answer: "Yeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssss".
Nick Campagna (26 days ago)
Season 3 uniform changes
William Stearns (26 days ago)
It is well known in the SciFi world that the concept of Babylon5 was pitched to people involved with Trek. They said they would pick it up if the creator changed it to a Star Trek vehicle. He refused and pitched it elsewhere. Paramount/Viacom then developed a Star Trek show loosely based on the concept of a space station.
Nicholas Dickens (26 days ago)
Star Trek in the 90s and beyond has been guilty of plagiarism. Look at the lawsuit against Star Trek Discovery (a real piece of trash TV – yes it’s a great looking show – but a total piece of crap).
Nicholas Dickens (26 days ago)
Basically — *YES!!!*
George Saint (26 days ago)
Wow I never knew that! I never saw every episode of B5, because it was never at home all the time when these episodes aired on TV. But what I ever saw of it I seriously loved. It makes me dislike Paramount money-grabbing culture even more.
Scrotum McScrot (26 days ago)
ds9 was better, enjoyed both.
Mikanoes (27 days ago)
(Reads title) Uhhh... doi? It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Jaqen H'ghar (27 days ago)
quick answer: *DUH*
StaticSkyTV (27 days ago)
I know the byline says “J Michael” ... but it’s Joe.
StaticSkyTV (27 days ago)
Star Trek had a much larger production budget, which they squandered again & again. B5 by way of comparison accomplished So Much with very meager resources.
David Boose (27 days ago)
Intergalactic means "Between two or more galaxies" I'm not sure about the gates in Babylon 5 but the wormhole in DS9 goes to a different portion of the Milky Way, not a different galaxy so it isn't intergalactic. Similarly the Federation, featured in all Star Trek series not just DS9, isn't the military. It's the government or nation that all the species in the Federation share. You have the Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, and the Federation as the Major Governments in Star Trek. The military arm of the Federation is Starfleet.
Essene Scriptorium (27 days ago)
Starfleet/Federation is not military. But everything else was correct. They both are beautiful B5 is more campy , but the writing was better, I must say. Being a diehard Trekkie, that is hard for me to admit.
oldman43 (27 days ago)
There flaws in two of those similarities at 3.08. The lost wife back-story on Babylon 5 did not start until Sheridan appeared at the beginning of season two. This was eighteen months after Sisko's lost wife back-story happened. On top of that Sheridan was only bought in as a character because Michael O'Hare (who played Sinclair) could not carry on. So the lost wife story could not have been part of the original story bible. The second one is the one about an Earth based organisation running both DS9 & B5. The Federation was established as an Earth based organisation back in the 1960's. So it is hardly surprising that DS9 was going to be a Federation run starbase. What else was it going to be.
Michael Trunzo (28 days ago)
Now I have to look up where ST:TNG introduced Ensign Ro/started laying the groundwork for Bajor.
Tim Riggins (28 days ago)
Neither show was a part of any network. Both were first run syndicated shows (not to be confused with syndication) like Highlander, Xena, and Andromeda. That is why Baltimore Fox 45 would air DS9 and Bab5 back to back because they were sold to television stations and not a particular networks.
Nathaniel Hellerstein (28 days ago)
B5 was a city, DS9 was a village.
Marky11694 (29 days ago)
No just because 2 shows are both set on a space station in deep space doesn’t mean one of them ripped off the other one
Crystal Walker (29 days ago)
Don’t forget to watch Babylon 5: Crusade afterwards. It has my favorite B5 character class: technomage and apparently somebody who does graphics likes my home state because you can see those Great Lakes every planet they orbit. Win! Win!
Lee Morris (29 days ago)
No. DS9 came out a year BEFORE B5. And DS9 was vastly superior. More like the other way round and even diehard B5 fans say the show should have ended after season 3. It truly was a dire series with ropey CGI and naff plots.
Buj Moose (29 days ago)
Babylon 5 is to DS9 as LOTR is to Twilight .
P1 Darthballz (29 days ago)
You do know sharidan was only brought in as a character because the actor that portrayed Sinclair was mentally ill. This came out after he died.
David Wainio (1 month ago)
Well, Paramount owned the Star Trek rights. It would have been stupid of them to not use it - and you can't copyright a general idea. They skip some things like DS9 no captain died, the different technology, no shape shifting security guy in Bab 5, possible while Bab 5 had a definite number of episodes to end the story. But yeah, it seems that the DS9 people were familiar with the Bab 5 story. I assume Stravenski got some scratch out of the settlement.
OOTurok (1 month ago)
Did Babylon 5 plagiarize Lord of the Rings?
Kahnovitch (1 month ago)
It was Commander Sinclair (not Sheridan) who became the actual Vorlon Prophet "Valen".
Jerome Crum (1 month ago)
I loved both shows and don't think any one of them is better than the other both have there own ground to stand on
magnus rising (1 month ago)
Love both shows. Always worth another viewing. Babylon 5 was always a little more unpredictable , simply because it wasn't Star Trek.If anyone reading this hasn't seen either shows ,I highly recommend both. Enjoy.
M G (1 month ago)
There is one major difference, in my opinion. B5 is awesome and DS9 sucks. Any time I run across a DS9 clip on line, I feel as though I am being nibbled on by cats.
pcm sgdanny (29 days ago)
quack
Tarek Nour for life
Timothy Duffy (1 month ago)
the shows were so different. I would say that it might of happened but we got very different shows out of it.
Elizabeth Montgomery (1 month ago)
B5 is superior because it could be spiritual without being automatically in opposition with its own base! Star Trek had always been unapologetically atheists in its treatment of all things spiritual so DS9 always felt awkward and like a square peg in a round hole show for Star Trek if you ask me it is the black sheep of the Star Trek universe. Meanwhile B5 stood on its own creating its own mythos and rich universe that was deeply spiritual and brilliantly carried out throughout its run. I honestly feel if more Americans had been ready for their story telling style it would widely be hailed as THE best sci-fi series ever.
henkman00 (1 month ago)
so Star Trek's track record: TNG a TOS remake. DS9 based on another work VOY another TOS remake but this time with an uninspired lost in space theme ENT another TOS remake but this time an unneeded prequel STD another TOS remake but this time...uhm...eeeh? and you thought TOS was called ''the original series'' because it was the first one...
BleakVision (1 month ago)
Can you make a retrospective about seaquest?
Joe Sycamore (1 month ago)
If it did, it didn't do it very well
Harry Wilson (1 month ago)
Omg ginger pubes you really a sad geek .
Chao Li (1 month ago)
Omg,,, no wonder ds9 was good but weird with the religious crap. Shame shame shame . . Wonder who will copy the expanse series
TheBloodyHound (1 month ago)
If the guy hadn't a;ready have watched 30 years of star trek he would never have come up with babylon 5. Star Trek owes him nothing DS9 cannot be touched.
Gups (1 month ago)
To me this is like saying Star wars plagiarized Dune or Flash Gordon. A fairly large overstatement, but the point is also valid, considering paramount clearly was inspired off of the B5 bible. Overall though they were both unique as their similarities were fairly based in the background IMO. Or maybe I am still pissed at J.M.S. saying "your right is showing" and blocking me when I said "as is your blue check mark". I thought that was funny lol. The guy is an ass and hard to empathize with
Shawn Gillogly (1 month ago)
Plagiarize? That's a legal term that would be impossible to prove. But did Paramount take JMS' B5 bible, analyze it for a year, file the serial numbers off, and dump the concept in a Star Trek universe? Absolutely. Now, did it go it's own way "enough" to avoid the charge of direct copying? Probably. Just. But the people who try to claim DS9 wasn't a clone of B5 are simply uninformed. And that there were supposedly aware TV people who were calling Babylon 5 a "Star Trek spin-off" was infuriating, and I suspect done at Paramount's behest.
Naelt147 (1 month ago)
Watched both shows from beginning to end. Liked both but Babylon 5 is better, its deeper somehow.
Mister Silent (1 month ago)
I dont always agree with you, but on this one, a definate thumbs up.
Andrew O (1 month ago)
Even if DS9 drew a lot of similar concepts to B5, I think its narrow-minded to blanket DS9's entire success as being on the backbone of B5. There's plenty of similarities, but there's also plenty of differences as well.
David McBeardface (1 month ago)
B5 story and characters were much richer, where as DS 9 has better FX
Ryan Reyes (1 month ago)
DS9 should have skipped the war plot and stuck to a space western story
Tony Miller (1 month ago)
JMSnews is NOT the official e-mail address for Straczynski’s.. It is a fan based site, that we as Straczynski fans post to talk about his work and Babylon 5.. You can post questions to his twitter account, but DO NOT post any story ideas..

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