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Did Deep Space Nine Plagiarize Babylon 5?

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Support my work on Patreon: http://ow.ly/3ymWFu Support my work on MakerSupport: http://ow.ly/pJjS100RXtS PayPal Donations Welcome. Click here: http://goo.gl/NSdOvK Sources: Straczynski’s email: http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-21322&query=ds9 Patricia Tallman On Star Trek DS9 Copying Babylon 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtaDXnB1YsA List of similarities: http://ow.ly/iumB1014o77 SUBSCRIBE TO THIS YOUTUBE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVb4m_5QHhZElT47E1oODg KEEP UP ON SOCIAL MEDIA: BitChute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/hybM74uIHJKf/ Gab: https://gab.ai/DaveCullen Minds.com: https://www.minds.com/davecullen
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Text Comments (1519)
Summers Winterer (14 hours ago)
They both plagiarized Space 1999.
AceVendetta (3 days ago)
both include a major storyline about enslavement and culture clash between rulers and former slaves
Matt Wheaton (3 days ago)
I'm just gonna say this, regardless of "who plagarized whom", Babylon 5 is one of my absolute favorite sci-fi space operas in a very huge ass way (and I ain't even gettin' into Japanese space opera such as Space Battleship Yamato, Mobile Suit Gundam, Super Dimension Fortress Macross, and of course the supreme awesomeness du jour of 'em all Legend of the Galactic Heroes).
starflame34 (4 days ago)
The Federation even declared Martial Law due to the fear of the Dominion and all. Yeah, it was only a two part story and wasn't the same as how B5 did it with Earth, but still.
AmericanPoliceState (4 days ago)
I would hazard a guess that this video chapped Razorfist's ass a little bit.
Mike Lovecchio (4 days ago)
I think J. Sheridan could go toe to toe with Picard as the best sci fi captain. Oh and a Whitestar would thrash the Defiant.
Irene Parkin (5 days ago)
Well, a few characters from B5 went on Star Trek The Next Generation and DS9. In one episode a EA officer was stated to have died in between season 3 and 4, but in the bloopers they said "he was last seen on DS9."
Mario Trujillo (5 days ago)
Just like Outlaw Star and Firefly
MatthewTreadstone (5 days ago)
Both Lytas were hot red heads.
John Viner (6 days ago)
DS-9 fanbois alerted! Let the screaming and denials and trolls and rage posting commence.
steveetienne (6 days ago)
Did Babylon 5 plagiarise Lord of the Rings?
Toonami Faithful (8 days ago)
While I do think the show runners did steal some things from B5, Deep Space 9 was a lot different and I can prove that.
The AstroNerdBoy (9 days ago)
This is a massively old controversy, but it was resolved during the run of BOTH series. Majel Barrett-Roddenberry did a guest starring role on B5, and Bill Mumy did a guest starring role on DS9 as a means of saying, "we're good now." Both shows are great and deserve proper HD remasters.
SirGeneralGreatness (10 days ago)
Most of these arguments are stretching it, plus the lawsuit Patricia Tallman speaks of, never happened. Babylon 5 fans are really grasping, DS9 will always be superior to that cheap, bad acted cheesefest of a show.
Christiaan Funkhouser (10 days ago)
Holy crap. I have never heard of that. This is fascinating!
svenusling (11 days ago)
I am in no way an expert on Babylon 5. But the Sheridan and his lost wife part is not something you can really accuse DS9 for since he joins the show in the second season and wasn't supposed to be there at all.
TheVoiceOfTruth (12 days ago)
id rather watch B5 than deep sleep 9
Hibbs4Prez (12 days ago)
Sheridan wasn't ever part of JMS' original bible. He was only created when it was decided that Sinclair as a lead was not working as the main character. So any similarities between Sheridan and Sisko is in DS9's favor, because Sisko had been established first. So the idea of our leading commanding officer having lost his wife to too powerful and dangerous force as well as the concept of having this lead commanding officer viewed as a religious figure was all done initially with DS9. Look I lived in real time when both shows aired and read countless articles and message board posts by both creators of the shows and fans. It is not as cut and dry as you are making it out to be. B5 beat DS9 to a lot of things but the reverse is true as well. Two decades ago I once wrote a list of the similarities between the series, some of which you listed in this video. When I get some time I'll come back with some other thoughts.
J Hanna (4 days ago)
Hibbs4Prez. It is now known that the actor who played Sinclair, who resently passed away, was suffering from mental illness (as now being told by the producers of B-5). His unannounced departure, before season two, was never really explained.
George Minter Jr (14 days ago)
Thank you. Also, Marcus is awesome. Along with the main cast.
DAEMON33 (18 days ago)
B5 i don't think i'll love any other show like it. maybe cause i was a kid at the time
Lee Miller (20 days ago)
b5 was better all round but i did enjoy the later seasons of ds9
selena8472 (21 days ago)
*yawns* here we go again but you just gave me a new wrinkle and I call it the bill gates wrinkle Steve Jobs and Steve Woz kept the tech out in the open and shared it with someone who had serious ambition congrats you idiots trusted someone who was ambitious and created a company that appeals to the average person the steves went on to create a company that appeals to specialized people but moving on. I am currently an unpublished writer and I will *NOT* walk in and tell them *EVERYTHING ABOUT MY COMICS* why???because their eyes could go wide figuratively but outwardly seem bored and then create something I can't prove they took from me. let me say this the meanest nastiest enemy of DS9 was *not* released by *the captain's sheer stupidness* now let me explain what i was told from my friend who was *an avid watcher and fan of the series* Sheridan had a problem with pirates and a being named Mr Morden came to Sheridan and asked him what did he want???translated what do you wish?? *LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!!!* who has played D&D *raises her hand* who has dealt with the wish spell ,unfortunately not I HOWEVER!!!!! I have read up on the wish spell and one of the notes i read is that the DM is *encouraged to be nasty* in other words grant the wish but twist it and be nasty about it they want a million gold pieces???congrats you get a million gold pieces and they fall on you and kill you., your wish has been granted. now Mr Morden asked Sheridan what do you want and he said something along the lines of "I want the pirates gone" congrats Sheridan your wish was granted and the shadow war began conversely Sisko who is later confirmed to be half human half well I won't spoil it for those who have not seen it and he was called upon by a higher power to bring about the reckoning and it contained two spirit beings and then .....well never mind find out for yourself said being then left and eventually found a host who worked to further the agenda which i am sure your can figure it out duh they called it the fight for heaven need i say more????but the meanest nastiest enemy and the conflict was brought about why???because they declared exploration of space of a certain quadrant let me let that sink in ok??an entire *quadrant* of the galaxy I won't assume everyone knows so I will explain that means an *entire 25%* of the galaxy would be off limits uh excuse me???who are these people to tell *us what to do* hmmmm??? yeah like we are gonna listen to these idiots sorry but exploration is worth the risk and not something the federation of star trek proper backs down from (discovery i don't consider part of star trek proper too out of character for the federation) (federation is explorers not imperialists)
Gamer Max (22 days ago)
yeah, I did the hour block, b5 was on first and I watched ds9 afterwords. I personally liked b5 better.
John Kelly (22 days ago)
I gradually came to notice the very numerous similarities between the two- B5 better at narrative writing, Ds9 A little better at character writing...
crypter27 (26 days ago)
I preferred Babylon 5, much better than Star-Trek.
Jon Kentucky (26 days ago)
it's cool you get two great shows both off the same story yet different....................
Shurlock Holmes (27 days ago)
DS9 is by far my favorite Sci Fi series I grew up with. I love the show I wish it never ended. I've recently given B5 a chance tho. And so far I'm hooked.
Michael Shea (28 days ago)
I loved both series, even though DS9 beyond any reasonable doubt used Straczynski's treatment, I agree that that was in no way responsible for DS9's success. In fact I think DS was the best of the 'modern' Star Trek series. One reason is that it was more gritty and realistic and less idealist than the other series. One interesting fact about B5 was it very low production costs due to it use of Commodore Amiga with Newtek's Video Toaster to produce all the external shots via CGI (PC render farms were used later for the show). I was a big Amiga fan at the time and this 'Desktop Video' success story led me to finally believe that the future of desktop computing would be Amigan. Alas I underestimated to bungling and lack of vision of Commodore!
Warbird Phoenix (28 days ago)
Loved both shows and B5 even had original star trek actors pass through as various charactors. The real gems were the actors. In the final episode of each show,you couldn't help but applaud and be moved as the credits start to scroll. Great prime time TV memories.
Aric Dilbeck (28 days ago)
Mass Effect has many, if not more similarities to B5: B5=The Citadel, Shadows=Reapers, White Star=Normandy, Vorlons=Protheans, Sheppard=Sinclair/Sheridan, Mimbari=Asari, Jump Gates=Mass effect Relays, Earth Dilgar War=Earth Turian War, I could keep going but the amount of Stuff Mass Effect "borrowed" from B5 is literally insane, If you took all the B5 Elements out of the game, there'd be nothing comprehensible left.
Jay Ohlrogge (1 month ago)
GlennRoxWyo (1 month ago)
I don't agree DS9 owes it's success to B5. In fact you just admitted it was a stand alone. The stories were completely different, it was some of the superficial elements that were alike. Not to mention the Lyta-Leeta/Dukat-Dukaht thing is REALLY stupid.
Andrew Jackson (1 month ago)
It's a known fact they staole the idea after a meeting about Babylon 5, they even kept Lita lol look at some of b5 comicon things
Alicia Bell (1 month ago)
Help me out people. I want to like Babylon 5 but I have watched three episodes from season 1 and the poor production values, cardboard characters and nilist outlook on the human race is bothering me. what episodes should I watch?
cid v (1 month ago)
it is a blatant ripoff, and not as good as B5
H.O.T. Air (1 month ago)
It was a coincidence. Get over it
Craig Manning (1 month ago)
uncanny resemblance? You have to be kidding me. Did DS9 plagiarize B5? Did your Mom F you Dad? Crazy, stupid. I love DS9 but it is for sure, and I mean for sure a copy of Bablyon5
Bryan Russell Thomas (1 month ago)
No... No they didn't. Very very different shows.
B5 smote DS9 into the dust.
Popsii (1 month ago)
It doesn't matter because no one watched Deep Space Nine.
Holden Caulfield (1 month ago)
B5 -was- is definitely better.
helrod (1 month ago)
The first couple seasons of DS9 were very trek a lot of TNG style scripts . Once B5 was getting attention and being praised for its long form story telling (something common now thanks B5) DS9 began to have something alien to the trek world story arcs. B5 introduced war, DS9 followed , B5 gave us the white star DS9 followed with defiant. etc etc. 20 years later DS9 has gained new life and is most peoples favorite trek show and that is thanks to its need to compete with Babylon 5. But Babylon 5 is the better show overall thanks to consistent storytelling because it knew where it was going. And of course G'kar one of the best characters on any television show. DS9 still suffers from trek syndrome countless filler episodes even a whole season of fillers after the story had gotten good .
Butcher Seven Actual (1 month ago)
Another similarity left off the list was the parallel characters of Londo Molari / Gul Dukat - both former occupiers who didn't see themselves as villains who have to work with their former victims in the form of G'kar/Kira
Fox Mulder (1 month ago)
They should remaster b5, I don't want potato quality
Act1veSp1n (1 month ago)
Regardless of the copying, both are amazing shows.
0mega Zer0 (1 month ago)
I like both shows and DS9 did unethically copy B5 I was shocked when I actually sat down to think about it a little bit. I liked B5's characters a lot more especially Londo and Gi'kar. Gi'kar was my number 1 character I liked for spiritual reasons when I reached the age of reason.
LordOrange (1 month ago)
I think Mass Effect was also heavly influenced by B5 (also G'kar was the best)
rkmugen (1 month ago)
I watched both, growing up.... loved them EQUALLY!
Sp1kerPistol (1 month ago)
Babylon 5 is THE number one sci fi show. Nothing can touch it even to this day (The Expanse is promising though). B5 really becomes epic during the second season.
Keyser94 (1 month ago)
I don't known, Londo Mollari have a much better arc than Dukat, Dukat was a plain psychopath, without any redeeming quality, Mollari was ruthless and prideful, but you can see reasons for his actions and in the end he suffer the consequences of it, and it funny for your being a conservative loving two TV Shows with so heavy social commentaries as those.
Jonathan Barker (1 month ago)
I liked both Deep Space Nine .And Babylon 5 at the same time they were out ,One was more edgy than other .I thought at time they were also very unrelated as t.v shows ,At lest on my point of view. .And would to see more of Babylon 5 and Deep Space Nine ,During the post years. of the show .The Psi War from Babylon 5 ,And the post events of Deep Space Nine following the Dominion. War ,Cause. I still a lot of questions of events on both shows .
Cory Waters (1 month ago)
Dave have you ever seen Space Above and Beyond?
Joe Faber (1 month ago)
Actually, unless the producers of B5 got their concept pre-1969 then the answer is NO. DS9 was based on a concept by Gene Rodenberry in 1969. Rodenberry had set a story arc for a fourth Star Trek season that WAS aboard a space station. The space station and the Klingon nemesis for this arc were set forth in the episode "The Trouble with Tribbles." BTW, the Dominion War happened near the end of the series.
Stephen Cothran (1 month ago)
It's a trap!!!!!
Len Hazell (1 month ago)
Actually both series were incredibly influenced by the British Sci fi series UFO Moon base UFO 1970 1. Both series are named after a space station name with a single-digit number Moonbase 1 2. Both series premiered in 1993, and were set aboard space stations that were hubs of interstellar trade and politics. series premiered 1970 3. Both stations were located beside portals to distant places. (B5 is near a hyperspace "jumpgate"; DS9 guarded the mouth of a wormhole.) Station was at the exit point of the alien's hyperspace drop point 4. Both series originally featured a shapeshifter character; however, Babylon 5 dropped that element before filming, replacing it with occasional characters using various illusory and camouflage mechanisms. The UFO Aliens were built from spare part of human or whole human bodies, there were occasions they used illusory techniques to hide. Series 2 of UFO was to feature the character of Maya a shape shifter, who instead appeared in Space 1999 a sort of spin off show. 5. Both started off with unmarried commanders haunted by a recent conflict. See 6 6. Commanders of each station had lost their wives before the series started. (Sisko and Sheridan) Straker the commander is an ex Astronaut his son is killed early in the conflict and his wife divorces him 7. Both men's wives reappeared during the series under the control of a more powerful race. (Sheridan's wife returns in person under the control of the Shadows, while the Prophets speak through Sisko's wife in visions.) Mary Nightingale, Straker's ex appears in flashbacks 8. Both commanders remarried during the shows run. It was planned for straker to remarry but the series did not continue 9. Both commanders had a girlfriend who was a freighter captain, Carolyn Sykes for Commander Sinclair and Kasidy Yates for Captain Sisko. This one does not apply, but might have done if the series had continued 10. The commander of each station eventually became a religious figure who fulfilled a prophecy, advised by enigmatic aliens who were regarded as spiritual beings. UFO season 2 was to be called UFO 1999, but was replaced by Space 1999 a spin off series that used this plot line as a carry over 11. Both commanders (Sisko and Sheridan) "ascended" to become noncorporeal lifeforms in the series finale. See 10 12. In both series the spiritual beings (the Vorlons, the Prophets) had an enemy (the Shadows, the Pah Wraiths) generally viewed as evil spirits by other races, with whom they had been at war for millennia. It was discovered the Aliens had an enemy, hence their need for spare parts, the enemy never appeared in UFO 13. Both series build up to a war between Humans and a militarily powerful, hard-to-detect enemy (the invisible Shadows, the shapeshifting Founders). This was the basis of the whole show UFO 14. Both series had a sarcastic, cynical but dedicated head of security who started out as perceptive and extremely competent, but later succumbed to insecurity and compulsion (Garibaldi's drinking, Odo's link with the female Shapeshifter) This is how Col. Freeman is written out of the show UFO 15. Both series had an idealistic young doctor with a hidden secret (Bashir's genetic enhancement, Franklin's involvement with the Underground). Both doctors also had strained relationships with their fathers. Dr. Douglas Jackson has a hidden past and his name is an obvious pseudonym as he is Indian, the character was set for more deveopment had there been a series 2 16. Both series involved the use of genetically engineered diseases, designed to work against a specific group (Changelings, Markab, Human and Narn Telepaths, others) as a means of control or genocide. Genetic Engineering plays a large part in the Alien motivation, in one case they genetically engineer people to be walking bombs 17. The second-in-command of each station was a woman with a hot temper who had lost a family member in a war. Straker had 2 female second officers, Col Virginia Lake commander of Skydiver and later over all second in command of SHADO (played by Wanda Ventam the mother of Benedict Cumberbach) and Lt. Gay Ellis, Moonbase commander 19. Both series involved an alien race who had once been humanity's main enemies, but were now strong (but often troublesome) allies (Klingons, Minbari) SHADO unites the world in a defence against the Alien threat and unites many former enemies as allies including the USA and USSR thus ending the cold war. 20. Both series involve a character who must deal with the conflict between their alien heritage, and their adopted human qualities (Worf, Delenn) There is a plot line in which Paul Foster is captured and genetically altered by the aliens before being rescued, the idea was dropped and the episode written off as a shock induced hallucination. However in Space 1999 a character called Maya who was originally meant to be in UFO 1999 21. Each series added a small, tough starship, each the first of its kind, during the third season: DS9's Defiant and B5's White Star. Moonbase boasted a fleet of “Interceptors” 22. Each series includes a sinister organization working within the humans' government: DS9's Section 31 and B5's Bureau 13, not to mention Psi Corps and Nightwatch as well. SHADO itself fulfilled this role, as an utterly secret organisation, a law unto itself 23. Each series had a male character named "Dukat" (though B5's is spelled "Dukhat") and each series had a female character named "Lyta" (although DS9's is spelled "Leeta"). There is a character in UFO called Lyra and Dukat/Dukhat is obviously a reference to the treasure coin a ducat 24. Each Station was administered by an Earth based government (Earth Alliance in B5, the Federation in DS9) but was not in that government's territory. SHADO was under the control of the UN but operated on its own recognisance 26. In the first season finales of both series, the character frequently regarded as the "everyman" (Miles O'Brien on DS9, Michael Garibaldi on B5) is betrayed by his assistant in an assassination attempt. In episode 7 Paul Foster is mind controlled by the alien's to assassinate Straker 27. Both series have a character who is the sidekick from an egocentric culture (Vir the Centauri and Rom the Ferengi). They both have values that are more "human" than those of their culture and are therefore seen as poor excuses for members of their race. Despite all this, they both end up as the leaders of their race by the end of the series. Episode 13 in a plot that was ripped off years later for “Enemy Mine” befriends a stranded Alien on the surface of the moon, and they save each others lives, before the Alien is killed . 28. Both series featured a six-episode story arc at the beginning of their penultimate seasons that chronicled a major turning point in their respective wars (the defeat of the Shadows and Vorlons in B5, and the retaking of the station from the Dominion in DS9). The final episode of UFO leaves a cliff hanger ending with the capture of a live alien and a negotiated temporary cessation of hostilities
Repulse theMonkey (1 month ago)
B5 was the pinnacle of space based TV, and quite was clearly ripped-off by the inferior DS9. Happily, the writers of DS9 could not compete with JMS.
marscaleb (1 month ago)
Nnnneeeehhh, I really think you're stretching it. Half of these examples are really scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for something. You even bring up the idea that they both aired in the same year. That is 100% nothing at all to do with plagiarism. I'm honestly surprised you'd even put that one in there. Seinfeld and Family Matters both started in the same year. Does that mean one of them plagiarized the other? They took the idea of having a space station that's near a critical hub, sure. But let's be honest here, that alone doesn't count as plagiarism. That one concept is so vague and open to so many interpretations that it is about the same as saying one movie ripped off another because "they both were about volcanoes" or "they both were about the human race facing extinction." Would anyone claim that Voyager plagiarized Lost in Space? No, those two shows have completely different structures, they both just use the concept of a spaceship trying to find its way back home, and I can even come up with a handful of other shows that likewise use that concept. They garner more similarity for opening with the commanders having lost their wives, and that there are religious ties with a prominent race in the area. Sure, so they clearly took some ideas from the other show. I would not call that plagiarism though, because at that point, all they are are ideas. Considering how much effort has to go in to the creation of these shows, how much development into each character and weighing out the role everyone has in the show's narrative, anyone could take those explicit statements and develop a wholly unique and original series that is utterly unlike either DS9 or Bablyon 5. You can still produce a unique approach, focus on different themes, conclude on different lessons, and so on. Everything that actually matters about the show can be, and is, different. At this point, all we have is a show that copied the same basic idea for the show, and two ideas for elements that the characters can explore. That doesn't really add to much; shows copy that much and more all the time. And that's about the limit of what I see as legitimate claims of copying Babylon 5. Everything else is either circumstantial, or just a good idea, or rehashing an earlier point. Having a single digit number in the title just sounds good. It makes a better title. And besides, it's a wholly frivolous point. It's just the title for crying out loud. "Both stations served as a hub for intergalactic trade and diplomacy" Yeah, but we already covered that. If your space station is right next to an intergalactic gateway, then naturally it's going to be the hub for travel through that gateway. That's just re-hashing the point you already brought up. "Both commanders have a freighter captain girlfriend." Well, what would you expect? Their wife died. That leaves them open for a new love interest. The most logical place to find that would be a captain that comes through their station frequently. That's not copying, that's just a good idea. That's the first thought any writer would have. If the love interest was a regular station member, the writing would be more trite and appear more forced. Next logical place to find love? Recurring character who doesn't have to be their every episode but has a reason to show up at any given time. Really, that's just an extension of the commander having their wife die in the backstory. "Warship introduced in season 3." NO. Sorry, but NO. You are talking about a change made to the show YEARS after both started airing. This is AFTER people started claiming they stole the idea. This is even after they settled the plagiarism suit, is it not? Anything after that point CANNOT be used in your argument because the matter was already settled by then. Both crews already settled their differences and made an agreement with each other. Any plans Star Trek knowingly stole would have to have been changed already. Any idea that they both use after that is either something they agreed to let the other do already, or pure coincidence. And if it wasn't either of those, the suit would have risen up again. Hell, at this point, Babylon 5 can start stealing from Deep Space 9. Who is to say that word of the Defiant got leaked out and the Babylon 5 writers said "That's a great idea! Let's have a warship!" This also goes for the war story, six part story arc, and the spiritual ascension of the main character. "Both stations are primarily run by the humans." WOW. look, I'm sorry if I sound mean here, but you're smarter than this. When is a popular sci-fi show ever NOT about humans? When are humans ever NOT the majority on whatever ship, station, planet, or whatever thing the show is set on? Look, even if someone in the writing staff wanted to make the humans an auxiliary on the space station, some executive would have told them "no," because audiences aren't going to be as interested if the people they identify with are seen as a lesser force. The only time any sci-fi or fantasy has done otherwise is when it has bent over backwards to make a strong point of making humans not be the starring role; when that fact is a central focus of the story. "Female second in command" OMG, see "half of every sci-fi show ever." Even the original Star Trek had a female first officer originally. That means that Star Trek did that BEFORE Babylon 5, and we can claim that Babylon 5 stole that idea from Star Trek. (But I wouldn't back up that claim, because it was done in dozens if not hundreds of sci-fi's. It's just part of sci-fi.) "Leeta and Lyta" I'll be honest here, I sat around for a while trying to remember who the hell was named Leeta in Star Trek. She was really a minor character. Look, unless the character filled the same role, you really have to chalk that one up to coincidence. It's a sci-fi show. It needs hundreds of names that are easy to pronounce to English speakers but yet don't sound too much like existing human names and words. Similarities arise, it just happens. But let's be honest here, let's say they did steal DS9 from Babylon 5. Tell me, of all the things they stole, why would they steal a name? That is literally the first thing any plagiarist changes; they keep the story but change all the names. It's not even a particularly cool name. Honestly having a couple similar names sounds to me like it is more likely both writing teams were inspired by the same source material.
Vercalos al'Corlin (1 month ago)
I have to watch Babylon 5, but I lean towards Deep Space 9 being the better, show, but it's hard to divorce the show from the rest of the franchise, as I was a fan of Star Trek before Babylon 5 and Deep Space 9.
Michael White (1 month ago)
I'm sorry but some of the points are really pushing it.  In the B5 Universe, everyplace had a "galactic gateway," later rendered obsolete as ships were improved, totally different from a wormhole.  Besides, Wormholes in the ST universe went back to the first movie.  Space stations having trade and diplomacy?  Of course.  That goes back to "The Trouble with Tribbles. as far as trade goes."  The Federation vs the Alliance?  Groups of governments are a common theme.  The Federation goes back to TOS.  Lyta VS Leeta?  One was a telepath and the other a Dabo Girl.  Well....  That's enough.  Frankly I loved both series, and wish they continued further.  One minor complaint about B5s writers.  They decided to blow it up because it would be a navigation hazard?  What did they think all those scattered pieces would become?
Janetta Schuch (1 month ago)
No it did not! as they would have taken the best stuff & they did not pick out any of Babylon 5's great ideas. Deep space 9 would have been so much better if they had learned something from Babylon 5.
Tim F (1 month ago)
There are certainly a lot of similarities between the two shows, but I don't really subscribe to the theory that anyone at Star Trek/Paramount intentionally plagiarized from the original B5 pitch. (beyond perhaps the general idea of a space station as a setting)
stormlands (1 month ago)
B5 out class Ds9 by miles and miles.
Axe Pagode (1 month ago)
I loved both shows. DS9 is my favorite of the Star Trek series. "In the Pale Moonlight" is my favorite Star Trek episode of all time. I like it more than "Trouble with Tribbles". When I re-watch the shows 20 years later, B5 can seem preachy and corny. B5 has the best space battles. I loved the idea of organic ships. If you watch the major battles in DS9 you can see them reuse the same footage from previous battles. They used scenes from season 6 Tears of a Prophet and Sacrifice of Angels in the episode "What You Leave Behind".
Leodous Kyron (1 month ago)
I like DS9 better and they clearly had common origins but went instantly in different directions. That was a good thing. I love both and (though I could only get to keep episodes of B5 on my mac) but yeah love them both. They both started in 1993 makes a guy feel much older and happier to have seen the golden age of Sci-fi.
Polar Bear Hero (2 months ago)
Started to watch both. Loved DS9 & still think it is the best Trek series. It was hard for me to get into B5. Found the acting very wooden, particularly the original captain who was just terrible. Also found many of the characters unappealing. I gave up watching it after 5 or 6 eps but years later did watch most of it. The B5 set was better giving a greater sense of size. DS9 sets felt smaller & took a lot of imagination to remember how big that station was suppose to be. I loved the DS9 captain & rest of characters. The main characters were so complex & it could be a shock when we learned what they had done in the past. Found the writing of the war to be excellent & the characters actions well grounded in their personalities. Appreciated how the characters all grew & changed during the show. Although the B5 plot was said to be fully developed before the show started it didn’t feel that way to me when I watched it later. Some parts rambled nowhere & others felt tacked on & not integral. DS9 felt tight to me. Even the inevitable filler eps on a network show moved the characters forward.
Anthony Tejada (2 months ago)
While not arguing with you on the basic premise that B5 was stolen in some degree, Most of your examples are not good examples of stealing. Space stations with numbers, that practice is common in science fiction and real life. Back story with lost wives also can easily be done for bringing tension for a main character. Also both of those are surface level, they don't touch the base story or meaningful content. Even an introduction of a warship during the series is surface level. DS9 needed more ships than runabouts which is completely different than the reason B5 got the White Star (the break out of war). The real stealing and what everything else can be based off is the spiritual figures and the beings of spirit that has a philosophical difference. One could point out that the Character of Kira and Susan is very similar which is a better than them just being female which is again surface level.
AussieBlokeGordo (2 months ago)
Yeah but come on Lyta was so much hotter than Leeta
Podkova (2 months ago)
Hell yes, but I like them both, though I didn't like DS9 at the time. Rather it grew on me on a second watching in the 2000s... but B5 is the (classic) Dr Who of the story. It's sfx budget was $4.50 & an Amiga, but my god the stories were good. As someone mentioned, it was more like Breaking Bad with it's long arc. I'd actually quite like to see it redone, assuming it could be done 25 years later without the PC bullshit that's so prevalent nowadays.
Chase Carter (2 months ago)
So I have to say DS9 is better. Maybe it’s the Trekkie in me saying that but it’s not only the best Star Trek show it’s just a good tv show all around. B5 is great don’t get me wrong but can’t compete with DS9
Frantic Noobs (2 months ago)
The big similarity that I noticed was the pilot of B5 had character using a 'Changling net' to make himself appear to be other people, DS9 of course had Odo, a 'Shapeshifter' who later discovered that his race refered to themselves as.... (wait for it).... "Changlings"
Mind Of Will (2 months ago)
Haven't seen b5 yet going to watch now even though I want a fan of ds9
Brian W (2 months ago)
I remember both fondly, my young 6 year old son and I would hop in my recliner and wait impatiently for each new episode to come on ;-) Never thought of the similarities b4, but they are remarkable, no doubt... We thoroughly enjoyed both series, but B5 takes it in my book if for no other reason... Laundo ;-)
Bill Campbell (2 months ago)
Yes, the shows were connected by theme and plots. Both shows did have separate side stories like what what happened to Garibaldi while on Mars. In the end, enjoyed them both, Star Trek a bit more on the basis that they used practical effects, ie actual filming models vs 90’s era CGI ships. Also, they kept the DS9 intact instead of blowing it up like they did to the B5 station (😥).
Jonathan Cast (2 months ago)
Repeatedly calling it a 'rip-off' when the similarities are such minor details, which aren't even fundamental to the show on DS9, and DS9 did so much both with the concepts and with original concepts, is really a disservice to DS9. If anything, this is really just an illustration of how absurdly over-broad copyright law has gotten - you can copyright vague ideas and story details (like space stations!) now, and sue anybody else who uses them. It needs to be reigned in so we get more creative expression as a result of copyright, not less.
Neil Day (2 months ago)
Here's another comparison - two characters at odds with each other: Londo & G'Kar (B5) and Quark & Odo (DS9)
Guitarsthatkill (20 days ago)
Used to get the Garibaldi/Londo vibe from many bar chats with Odo the security guy and the Ferenghi too.
Ben Wilson (2 months ago)
Both had episodes visiting the previous version of the shows space station. Babylon4 and Empok Nor
TheGreaterGood80 (2 months ago)
Dave, one of the biggest similarities you missed were the story arcs of the Cardassian-Bajoran conflict on DS9 and the Centauri-Narn conflict on B5. Both are about a once peaceful and spiritual people (Bajorans, Narns)being brutally enslaved by a corrupt and decadent race(Cardassians, Centauri). The main difference is that the occupation of Bajor was in the past whilst still being a prominent plot point, whereas the Centauri once again subjugated the Narns due to the machinations of the Shadows.
Steve Pax (2 months ago)
no no no---They are completely different.
Rocky Beats (2 months ago)
I like DS9, but I love Babylon 5! Hands down one of my favorite series of all time!!!
Gerbil Crusher (2 months ago)
They were both great shows i loved Ds9 for it's Star Trek roots but B5 was equally as good for its fantastic characters and deep story, Star Trek had great models and sets B5 at the time had cutting edge CGI . But as was said in the video we were the winners as we got two great shows.
Sam Vang (2 months ago)
Wow, I dont know why I never notice all those similarities in that way. I mean, I knew there were some things that were the same and I just thought "hey!" Lol, I also just thought all SciFy folks made their rounds and influenced each other slightly, never knew there was an actual conflict between the two. I love them both. Ds9 was a darker Trek show, and it brought with it the darker side of space life. B5 was even darker, and was more realistic about things that will never stop existing for humans, like currency, crime, political schemes, etc.... I cant take sides here, I love them both too much but this video did make me realize why there were some issues between the two fan bases and show runners.
Ragnar Danneskjöld (2 months ago)
Yeah, the pre-destiny religious angle was a radical departure for Star Trek, and not consistent with Roddenberry's vision for the franchise. I'm not normally a fan of anything involving fate, or pre-destiny, which renders the entire journey moot, but B5 was a masterpiece in story-telling, and I loved it. DS9 was also great because it was based on the story-telling of B5. Plus it had Garrick.
Kor Taffel (2 months ago)
We got two great series. I don't mind.
Laser-boy (2 months ago)
I prefer to see this in a positive light. Instead of 1 great show, we got 2. And Straczynski has remained relevant up until now.
Glenn Ward (2 months ago)
Before I watch the video I am going to answer the question and explain why. The answer is absolutely! Yes they did and here is why. Look at every other Star Trek series. Pick 1, any 1 or all. It doesn't matter. Before DS9 or after DS9, none of them are anything like DS9. 1: Each series is set in ships exploring the galaxy. 2: None of the other series focus on religion. Yes there are some episodes that have religion in it. Think about those two things while you go back.and watch both DS9 and B5. Without B5 I doubt we would have ever had DS9, at least not in the way we have it now. By the way DS9 is a great show so I am not knocking it. But yes, they did copy B5.
Fred Miller (2 months ago)
Meh. Coincidental. Two shows about space stations are going to be somewhat similar. I grew up watching both and I didn't see the "heavy" influence you apparently did. DS9 was its own show, and imo, superior in most every way to Babylon 5. Of course the hardcore SciFi fanboys love B5 just because its fashionable to sh*t on Star Trek in their circle.
Блядь Россия (2 months ago)
Yes. There, no one has to waste eight minutes now.
Project DJ (2 months ago)
I find it both strange and disheartening that there are people on this post trying to argue that DS9 was not a rip-off of B5. This was WELL established in the 90's. If a simple truth can be lost in a mere 20-25 years, what else will we not know in another 25? Now we must question all of recorded history, many of our "facts" are based on recountings from 50-400 years, some even 1000 years, later. Virtually every ancient historical written record is a fable built around a legend.
TREY RIVER (2 months ago)
Yes.. and poorly at that.
Chad Lieb (2 months ago)
Sheridan and Sisco both were baseball fans, and were survivors of a war with a seemingly unbeatable foe.
kaiowas12 (2 months ago)
Wasn't B5 basically Lord of the Rings in space.
Janetta Schuch (1 month ago)
kaiowas12 -- they were no way the same with the one that LODR & Babylon 5 were both legendary in scope.
kaiowas12 (2 months ago)
Empower Politics When I first heard the theory it was pre-internet for me, I think it was on a cult TV Teletext page which said something along the lines of to help understand B5 just think of LOTR.
Michael Hester (2 months ago)
Also that Federation vs Earth Alliance – surely that’s a rip off the other way around? The Federation goes back to Star Trek TOS in the 60s. If you look hard enough, you’ll find any fiction takes ideas from the past and then adds its own twist.
Michael Hester (2 months ago)
Who cares? The show was great so I don’t care where they got their ideas from.
rativiv crypto (2 months ago)
Babylon 5 was one of the greatest scifi shows ever made.
Darm0k (2 months ago)
TheSimpleThings (2 months ago)
Wow. I won't be able to see ds9 the same way again.
Brian Gervais (2 months ago)
im just happy we got the 2 best sci fi series. Also surprised i never noticed dukat on both shows
rand314 (2 months ago)
Karmagheden (2 months ago)
Short answer: No
Genesis Rising (2 months ago)
Don’t forget the comparison between the Centauri and the Narn vs the wait ds9 utilized the relationship in the cardassians and bajorans

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